How can design make us feel valued as employees, and remind us of the value our work has in the world? What must designers and architects be doing to adapt to the changing expectations of fast-moving start-ups, with rapidly expanding footprints and whole new ways of organising their spaces?

In this episode, a conversation with David Galullo and Petrus Palmer, two design company CEOs, who discuss how they’ve bucked the status quo of their industries, but also the work each of them is doing that has helped shape the office places and businesses of others.